#havendance reads comics

[havendance]

Ran out of steam on the Year One vs Zero Year post for now and I don't think this is going to fit in it, so I'm just going to make it it's own post, but here's the evolution of an iconic Batman line:

The "I shall become a bat" line has been there from the beginning:

Left: from Batman #33 Bruce Wayne: A Bat! That's it! It's like an omen! I shall become a Bat Right: from Detective Comics #265, a silver age retelling Bruce Wayne: A Bat! It's like an Omen! I shall become a Batman!

There are minor variations, but they're largely the same. Frank Miller knows that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. He does, however add some embellishment and make one key innovation:

(Batman #404) Bruce Wayne: I have seen it before... somewhere... it frightened me... as a boy... frightened me... yes, Father. I shall become a bat. (emphasis mine)

He added the Yes, Father bit, and that's the version that's gotten carried forward to today!

(Batman (2011) #23 (written by Scott Snyder)) Bruce Wayne: Yes, Father. I shall become a bat.

(Well, two innovations, I suppose. Frank Miller also added the little bell as far as I can tell which, while not visible in this panel from Batman (2011) #23, is sitting on the side table in the extended sequence Snyder devotes to this scene, even though it's never called out. I'm inclined to call that more of an homage though)

[mysteriousbeetle]

Helena Bertinelli :)

How I feel about this character

before i even read comics with her, just from art and panels i'd seen of her i knew she was cool. i really loved reading batman/huntress: cry for blood and after that, reading huntress (1989) is what made me love her character even more. what stands out to me the most about her is how she's driven by passion for her family, for saving people and for justice.

All the people I ship romantically with this character

i really like helenarenee as both a romantic ship and platonic ship because of how well they get along and how much they care for each other. helenababs or helbabs is fun as a toxic yuri ship. helena and vic sage are cute together too.

My non-romantic OTP for this character

i think in a way i don't have a platonic otp for her because while she has a lot of important relationships, i feel like she wouldn't really have one person who is closer to her above all others, partially because of her sense of independence. one relationship i like with her that i like in a purely platonic way is helena and dinah. dinah was someone to offer her her trust and support and that's really neat.

My unpopular opinion about this character

this isn't exactly about helena but i think the art style in huntress (1989) is good actually and works really well for the series.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

i would like to see her more involved with her local community!! i feel like she really shines during moments where she does this. also, i want to see what happened with james!!

[pokeberry5]

tfw u're on the verge of tears bc too many people are talking at once

sketchdump (again, mostly tim, bc even when i dont set out to draw him, i end up drawing him anyway):

dick & tim from gotham knights issues #8-10 have my whole heart

my friend got me a new pen:

and i've been reading a lot of upswings and havendance's fics where tim keeps showing up at people's apartments, as is his due (let him in!!)

tim using his cape as an emergency blanket!!

this stupid image has been haunting me for months:

if it wasn't clear from honeypot and the red dress comic, i like a very specific aesthetic

i wanted a red hood charm too:

(chibi catwoman tim from a old, larger spread "the latex spread" that i absolutely cannot post the full version of o7)

some really ancient doodles (proof that long hair tim has been important to me since the beginning):

roughs of my red dress comic:

[zahri-melitor]

so i'm reading certain nightwing volumes from '96 - 02 for my current reading run following NML (shout out to @havendance, cannot thank you enough 🫶🏾) and while some aspects of how he's written is very compelling and interesting to chew on, for the most part it's been pretty....boring?? like i'm gonna keep reading it so i can have as much context as possible, but it feels more like a chore 😩

anyways, i read your response on that “who’d you choose to write nightwing” poll and i’d love to get your opinion on what nightwing runs/writers to read outside of those 8 volumes. i really wanna get into dick grayson’s character and personality! also, if it’s cool with you, anyone else please feel free to add to this!

-dominomasc

Hey, dominomasc. Unknowingly you've just raised one of the fundamental incongruities of how comics work.

Comics are about layers of stories providing depth to a character and about dozens of different interpretations more than they are about a single amazing run. (Some characters have That Run! But on average, most don't). Dick Grayson, a character that has existed for 84 years, has some very fun stories from all sorts of writers. His title, Nightwing, is also an excellent example of how a lot of long running titles often don't really have a stand out section that's head and shoulders above the rest.

I promise, you are never going to run out of stories to read about Dick Grayson (Comicsvine has him at 9,593 appearances as I write this). So yes, this is going to be about two things: advice on finding stories about Dick that vibe for you; and advice on understanding Dick alongside other storylines.

Taking into account what's listed above and the fact I'm moderately obsessive, I have compiled a discussion of most of the major writers who have written Nightwing runs, or who have written major titles that Dick also prominently appears in.

I am at heart a 'Dick belongs to the Bat Office' person and my expertise in most characters starts with COIE. On that basis I'm not going to dip into pre-Crisis here.

Marv Wolfman & George Pérez: New Teen Titans (1980-1993ish). I am not going to explain all the title names here; you're going to have to go get more detail from someone who treats NTT period as their special interest. Wolfman and Pérez are the architects of Nightwing as a character, separate to Robin, that Dick grew into. Read this period if you're interested in Dick as a young adult among the other Titans going through the transition into adulthood and independence, and his relationship with Kory. Basically it's a superhero young adult soap opera. It can be quite uneven in places, particularly towards the back end, and there are approximately a thousand discussions over which storylines are good and which should be fired into the sun. I am not a subject expert for this period.

Because of the state of the Titans titles in the early 1990s, the Bat office demanded Dick Grayson back under their control. Exactly when they got him back is slightly debated, but it would be fair to say Batman #500 (October 1993) marks his transition back to being a Bat character (around the start of Knightquest); by KnightsEnd and Prodigal (July 1994-January 1995) Dick is once again firmly a member of the Batman set of characters, and has remained so to date.

Prodigal, by Chuck Dixon, Alan Grant, Doug Moench: (Batman #512 to Robin #13). Use a reading list here as the stories are spread across multiple titles. Prodigal is 12 issues about Dick's first time being Batman, with Tim as his Robin, and his feelings about returning home to Gotham as an adult. Robin #13 in particular is possibly the most important issue of the story, as it's the foundation of a reset in Bruce and Dick's relationship with each other and how it is going to be characterised for the next decade or so.

Chuck Dixon: (Nightwing #1-70 1996, Nightwing: Alfred's Return, and a bunch of other one shots) So Dixon is probably DC's most prolific writer of all time, and is the architect of what's been treated as 'default Nightwing'. In this run, Dixon creates Bludhaven and the situation of Dick being its protector, out of a desire to be his own man apart from Bruce. He sets up an extensive Rogue's Gallery for Dick, the most famous of which is making Blockbuster one of Dick's main enemies. He has Dick working at a cop bar and then decide to enter the Bludhaven Police Department in an attempt to investigate it from the inside due to the levels of corruption. This is also the run where Dick and Babs get together as adults. Basically, everything about 'default' Dick that you probably know comes from this run. Dixon's great for character interaction, for world building, and and particularly at making various titles tie together - because he was writing at least 1/3 of DC's entire line for a while there he's the king of crossovers, giving a lot of depth to friendships because characters just pop between titles he's writing. His actual plots however vary between middling to occasional flashes of greatness. I'd consider The Hunt for Oracle (#45-46 and BOP#20-21) and the Shrike story (#55-58) to be the standout storylines in his Nightwing run; for individual issues I'd also point to #6 and #25 for his relationship with Tim, #16 for Dick building his car, and then his crossover issues in events tend to be quality.

Chuck Dixon and Scott Beatty: (Robin: Year One 2000, Batgirl: Year One 2003, Nightwing: Year One - Nightwing #101-106 1996) I am separating these three out from the rest of Dixon's work as they're quite important as retcons over Dick's backstory. Robin and Batgirl are well regarded rewrites of events; Nightwing is less so, partly because it's a solid example of the Jason personality retcon, and partly I think because a lot of people reading this were still well across the two 1980s versions of Dick's transition from Robin to Nightwing. I highly recommend Robin Year One, particularly with the Shrike storyline of Nightwing, as they are interlinked.

Devin Grayson: (Nightwing #71-100 & #107-117 1996, Nightwing/Huntress 1998, Gotham Knights #1-11 & #14-32, The Titans #1-20 1999) Oh, Devin. Devin Grayson is a Dick Grayson superfan (she uses Grayson as her surname because of Dick). She is really good at character introspection - Gotham Knights #1-11 contains some amazing character work. She's also not shy about establishing her own headcanons on characters and retconning their backstories. Devin's biggest contributions to the Dick Grayson lore are in establishing him as Romani and actually writing Bruce adopting Dick. Her run on Nightwing is best understood as a whump, break-the-cutie run, where Blockbuster sets out to destroy Dick's life, and in the process gets Dick fired, breaks up Dick and Babs, burns down Haly's Circus (for the first time), blows up his entire supporting cast, chases Dick out of Bludhaven and leads to Dick going under cover in the mob essentially to punish himself (also not the only time). Dick's also sexually assaulted in Nightwing #93 but I really beg people to read this in context of the rest of the run; this should be looked at as PART of the whole flow of whump, rather than as a separate situation. Grayson also had the title taken off her before she got to the 'comfort' part of the extended hurt/comfort storyline she was writing. It reads a lot better if you think of this in a more transformative fandom, ficcish manner of story rather than as a more standard run. If her Nightwing run is too grim for you, I highly recommend Gotham Knights and her Titans run; Devin Grayson is honestly best when she's writing a constellation of characters around Dick more than when she's writing Dick himself. She adores his friends and family. Standout issues to get a sense of Devin include: Nightwing #100, a self-reflective issue on Dick's history; Nightwing #81, where Dick's in hospital and Cass goes after Slade for him; Titans #15 1999, where the Fab 5 go on a camping trip together to get back to their roots and deal with a lot of tensions in the group; and Gotham Knights #8-11, Transference, where Dick and Tim team up to rescue Bruce, who's been brainwashed by Hugo Strange.

Jay Faerber: (The Titans #21-41 1999) Honestly Faerber's run on The Titans is not that Dick Grayson focused. It's entertaining if you want to read some solid Titans dynamics, but the standout characters you read this run for are Roy and Donna. Seriously, if you're into Roy, Cheshire and Lian drama I highly recommend Faerber's work; otherwise it's not an essential run for Dick.

Judd Winick: (Outsiders #1-25, 34-49 2003, Batman & Robin #23-25 2011) Winick tends to write an angrier and darker edged Dick Grayson, and he has a bunch of really common tropes you see pop out in his writing. These are no different, and thus include an awful lot of violence and characters having sex (so much sex). He can be quite funny as a writer, but honestly his Outsiders run does not have much of that humour. The Batman & Robin story is basically Winick finding some space to tie up his Jason Todd plot before Flashpoint obliterated it, more than an actual story about Dick. If you want a good encapsulating issue to get the vibe of Winick about Dick, take a look at Outsiders #21, which has a good chunk of Dick and Roy AND Dick and Bruce in it, though it's helpful to remember that this issue is set very shortly after War Games and so Dick is in a massive guilt spiral.

Bruce Jones: (Nightwing #118-124 1999) It's One Year Later! Bruce Jones moves Dick back to New York City (as Bludhaven went boom due to Chemo in the lead up to Infinite Crisis) and theoretically sets up Dick's status quo out to Reborn. So. The story Jones is most famous for is the first 4 issues of the run, which are generally referred to by fans as the TentaTodd story. Jason Todd turns up to run around annoying Dick by ALSO dressing up as Nightwing and committing crimes. He also turns into a tentacle monster for a bit. It is certainly a story that exists, but it actually is pretty in line with Jason and Dick's relationship up to Flashpoint: Jason turns up to be a brat who wants attention, does violent things, and Dick exhaustedly kicks the shit out of him and gets him locked up while despairingly going 'why is this my life'. Because of Jason running around killing people as Nightwing, the NYPD get mad at Nightwing and start trying to hunt him down. Jones is for the completionist.

Marv Wolfman: (Nightwing #125-137 1999) Lacking any better ideas, Wolfman gets a run on Nightwing. It's not Wolfman's finest work, to put it bluntly, and it's very obvious that Marv hasn't actually read any of Dixon or Grayson's runs. Marv does set Dick up working as a gymnastics and trapeze coach, which is always a decent job for him. If I had to pick one story from Wolfman, read Nightwing #127, where Dick gets buried alive and digs his way out of the grave.

Peter J. Tomasi: (Nightwing #140-157 1999, Batman & Robin #20-22 2011) Tomasi loves Dick Grayson, and particularly loves Dick's connection to his friends and family. Let me put it this way; in the lead up to Final Crisis and Blackest Night every title got an Origins and Omens short story on the back of an issue. Most books used it to write creepy or introspective reflections on awful stuff especially deaths that have happened to the characters. Tomasi used his to have Dick take Barbara skydiving for her birthday, and echo a bunch of themes from his first issue. I think this is one of the most mature and grown up looks at Dick prior to Flashpoint; Tomasi treats Dick as a grown adult with an adult relationship with Bruce. I love Freefall. Read Freefall to see some really interesting meta on Dick's relationship to the concept of falling and to the concept of catching falling people, a theme that's frequently present in his stories.

Grant Morrison: (Batman & Robin #1-16 2011) Astonishingly given how much of Reborn was designed by Morrison, they don't actually seem to care that much about Dick as a character more than as a prop to set Damian against. Dick's extremely focused on Damian in this title but also does not actually appear to like Damian very much. If I were going to recommend one story out of it I'd probably point to Batman & Robin #7-9, because Dick gets to be a giant hypocrite in them and tries to resurrect Bruce. It goes badly, for all involved.

Scott Snyder: (Detective Comics #871-881, Gates of Gotham, and like every Bat event during n52) The Black Mirror is probably my favourite piece of Dick!Batman storytelling set during Reborn. It's just elegant in terms of how hard Snyder pushes Dick and how his reactions are very much not those that Bruce would have. This is helpfully extremely obvious in that The Black Mirror and Gates of Gotham are actually part of a trilogy, the third act of which is Court of the Owls and due to Flashpoint Snyder had to rewrite CotO quite extensively including swapping Dick out of being Batman and having Bruce as the lead. Read The Black Mirror for Dick having a minor breakdown while solving a complex case with links to James Gordon and Babs. Read Gates of Gotham for incredible Dick & Tim & Cass & Damian fourway storytelling that shows the dynamics of every pairing out of the four.

Fabian Nicieza: (Nightwing #138-139 1999, Batman #703 & #713, parts of Battle for the Cowl, Nightwing #51-56 2016) The thing about FabNic is when he's on, he's very much on, and when he's not it can be painful. I actually almost would have skipped him on this list, but he very much deserves recognition for writing the Nightwing issues of Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul, which alongside the Robin issues portray exactly how far Dick will go for Tim; and for Batman #703, which is the only issue prior to Bruce's resurrection that actually puts Dick, Tim and Damian on page together as heroes. He also got saddled with writing the start of the Ric Grayson saga under the script of Scott Lobdell, which, well, is definitely at the 'not well regarded' end of his oeuvre. FabNic is again a writer that is really good at character interaction, and I tend to find whenever I'm reading events where there's heaps of writers involved and he's there, the issues I really enjoy are the ones he's had a hand in.

Tony S. Daniel: (Battle for the Cowl, Batman #692-699 & #704-707 & #710-712) Oh, Tony Daniel. Why. Daniel's stories are probably the most classic-Batman of the Dick!Batman stories. His stories revolve a lot around drama at Arkham Asylum, with Harvey and Gilda Dent, and with the Falcones. On balance I think you could probably actually trade Dick out for Bruce in half these stories and it wouldn't make a huge amount of difference. If I were going to suggest one to try, maybe go with #710-712? It's Harvey focused and it has Kitrina Falcone and doesn't actually depend on the whole Jeremiah Arkham thing.

Kyle Higgins: (Nightwing #1-12, 0, & 15-29 2011) For a reboot of Dick Grayson down to his fundamentals, and working within the requirements of the 5 year time line, I like Higgins' work on Nightwing. Sure, I could have done without him burning down Haly's circus, again, and all the Court of the Owls revelations, but some of that was clearly dictated to him, and they way he gave Dick time as a teenager with relationships with other characters at Haly's before his parents died worked quite well. If I were going to cite a favourite part of this run it's probably the last section, #18-29 when Dick moves to Chicago and tries the 'strike out as my own hero with my own city, screw you dad' thing for the first time in the new timeline. Higgins put in quite a bit of cast building work and it's a shame none of it ever got used again between Forever Evil and then Rebirth just ignoring everything during this period.

Tom King and Tim Seeley: (Nightwing #30 2011, Grayson #1-20) I'm going to treat these two together here as I can't actually easily subdivide the run between them. This is the longest period Dick goes undercover working as a spy because his life has just gone to shit. He is both spying on Spyral (for Bruce) but also his job within Spyral is as a spy and special agent. Think James Bond, except Dick also gets to be the focus of the objectification camera. Some people enjoy it as a change of pace, some people can't stand it because it's just a very weird story for Dick and Dick's generally personally unhappy when he's stuck undercover, and it definitely is a highlight in the 'did you know Tom King worked for an intelligence agency? Tom King is working out his feelings about working for an intelligence agency again' oeuvre. If you want to try an issue, I recommend Grayson #5 as probably the best character and storytelling piece in the entire run.

Tim Seeley: (Nightwing #1-34) Good stuff I can say about Seeley's run includes that he used Rebirth as a impetus to rebuild Dick's status quo. He did quite a lot of world building for a new version of Bludhaven, he got Dick back into Nightwing and back into a blue V costume for the first time in 7 years, he's interested in looking at the Grayson family and not so much in terms of the Court of the Owls stuff. He likes Dick and Damian's time as Batman & Robin. Seeley's also a fan of a lot of character beats in terms of Dick's characterisation that were pioneered by Devin Grayson - particularly in terms of Dick being easily attracted to women, being impetuous and hot headed at times, and in the Romani retcon. I don't necessarily see eye to eye with Seeley on all of his characterisation and story choices, but he does a lot of repair work on getting Dick back to being Nightwing, including things like repeating beats from the Dixon and Grayson runs so that Dick has that backstory again, and what that means for his character. I might suggest Nightwing #8 2016, because it revolves around Bruce and Dick and the concept of falling (I'm a sucker for a good falling metaphor) or #9, which is literally a discussion of the changes between n52 and Rebirth with both of the Clark Kents, and in which Clark points Dick to return to Bludhaven (in a sort of re-encapsulation of Clark originally giving Dick the inspiration for the name Nightwing, but this time pointing him to what people treat as his default 'home'). If you like the shape of Dick as Bludhaven's hero from fic, you probably will find Seeley's run has stuff to enjoy.

Sam Humphries: (Nightwing #35-41 2016) So Humphries' storyline is another good example of what a lot of the current run of Nightwing contains since 2016 - reinterpretations and new versions of old stories. In this case, it's an adaption of the Hanging Judge storyline to have taken place in Bludhaven in Bruce and Dick's past. I don't mind it as a story, but it's definitely there to remind you of old story beats.

I haven't yet read Benjamin Percy's run, or any of Ric Grayson yet (which is a combination of Scott Lobdell, Fabian Nicieza and Dan Jurgens), or Tom Taylor's run, so I don't want to give you too explicit opinions on these.

In general terms from experience on other titles and what other people have said: I really loved Benjamin Percy's Detective Comics #35-36 story in n52 and I suspect his Nightwing writing is a perfectly acceptable fill; nobody particularly likes the plot surrounding Ric Grayson, and the fact Scott Lobdell had a hand in plotting it seems to me to explain a bunch of the aspects of the scenario premise that upset a lot of people; Dan Jurgens is a DC workhorse who can turn his hand to anything; and Tom Taylor's run has been described as many as 'rewrite the arc of Devin Grayson's run but make it light and fluffy and free of consequences'. I honestly think if you haven't read much Nightwing yet, Taylor's run may be a good transition run to try to see if he's your vibe; I keep getting the impression he probably makes a good intro for new readers.

If you have any other writers you would like my impression of, please ask specifically; as I've said, Dick's been written by a LOT of people over the years.

[sasheneskywalker]

Weekly Batman/DC Fic Recs (1)

This week I've read two delightful character studies, one focused on Barbara Gordon and the other on Jason Todd. There's also a hilarious SI/OC fic from the perspective of Tim Drake and two fantastic fics where Lonnie Machin/Anarky plays a major role. Apart from that, two delicious smutty fics got an update: Bruce/Dick/Jason college au and Slade/Jason western au. We also have an amazing DCU, MCU and X-Men crossover oneshot! Hope you enjoy the recs <3

Delta T by Havendance In one universe, mere seconds stop Barbara Gordon from sniping Black Mask. In another, she takes the shot.

G | No Archive Warnings Apply | Batman (Comics) | Helena Bertinelli & Barbara Gordon

this city is the place to be by Jezebunny Gotham city is going to be destroyed in twelve hours.

Jason doesn't see any point in stopping it.

What does he owe anybody, anyway?

T | No Archive Warnings Apply | Batman - All Media Types | Jason Todd & Bruce Wayne

Domestication Protocols for Nocturnal Fauna by rozaceous, vermillion_crown It’s been years since Tim's thought about the secret identities of Gotham’s winged wonders. A chance encounter while searching for college roommates that won’t burn the place down gives Tim a lead and the hope of new accommodations. The only thing he has to do is pretend that he doesn’t know anything.

Easy.

("—and they were roommates!" SI/OC edition)

T | Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings | Batman - All Media Types | Jason Todd/Original Female Character(s), Tim Drake/Original Male Character(s), Dick Grayson & Original Character(s), Original Female Character(s) & Original Male Character(s), Tim Drake & Original Female Character(s)

The Assassination of President Luthor by the Radical Lonnie Machin by NiteWrighter "Hi. I’m Lonnie. So I guess I should start out by saying, I don’t believe violence is a sustainable tool. It’s not. It’s a reflection of our ugliest, most base instincts. But it is the current language of the state, so I apologize for bringing my voice to the conversation."

President Luthor has been brutally killed by a magical weapon, and Anarky has claimed responsibility. The Justice League is struggling with the ensuing fallout, instability, suspicion, and speculation, while a power vacuum opens up in the world of the Rogues. What does a world without Lex Luthor look like? Is he truly gone? Has a greater chain reaction been kicked off by this single death?

T | Major Character Death | Superman - All Media Types, Justice League - All Media Types, DCU (Comics) | Clark Kent/Lois Lane, Diana (Wonder Woman) & Clark Kent & Bruce Wayne, Lana Lang/Pete Ross, Tim Drake/Lonnie Machin

The Half-Life of Sixty Seconds by sunnymusings "The problem with thinking like a detective is not actually that thinking like one is too strict or structured. There’s organization on a document, but Tim’s mind is not a bullet journal. It’s not a legal form, it’s not a spreadsheet, it’s not a ledger.

It’s messy and human and creative. Loose, unstructured, instinctual. Detectives aren’t good at solving cases because they work like machines; it’s much the opposite. It’s that creative mess which aids in seeing between the structure of presented facts, reading the code, and then cracking it. It’s like tracing a spider web back to its center. There’s an observable track leading exactly where one needs to go— a veritable method to the madness— but it’s still art, all the same, even to the broom that ruins it.

So, when Tim is presented with a countdown, it’s not just a mechanical, factual understanding of time that pushes hard against the inside of his ribs; it’s a too-clear visual of a digital clock-face, neutral and unyielding, counting down from sixty in his neocortex. Artistic and messy and emotional.

There is only one place to go once one is caught in the web."

Based on Red Robin #16. Missing Scenes and Relationship Building.

T | No Archive Warnings Apply | Batman - All Media Types, Red Robin (Comics) | Tim Drake & Lonnie Machin, Tim Drake/Lonnie Machin

Making The Grade by MelodramaticMrTails Jason partners up with the rich and beautiful Dick Grayson and quickly finds out the Wayne family secret- and that Dick wants him to join in on it.

E | No Archive Warnings Apply | DCU (Comics), Batman - All Media Types | Dick Grayson/Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson/Jason Todd

Nothing to Nobody by Jae_Cillian The kid—Jason—stared at Slade with wide, alert eyes. Big and round like a doe—startled in its grazing, frozen in the sights of a predator. He leaned forward, one hand still gripping the pistol but the other anchoring his weight against the floor as if to stand and chase after Slade. But with Slade’s eye on him, Jason didn’t dare move an inch. All tense lines and silent shudders of breath that Slade could see quake along the kid’s ribs, Jason reminded Slade of a stray dog. Snarling and snapping its canines when he got too close, but whimpering and whining when he walked away.

Slade wondered how long it’d take to tame the kid; and, thereupon, realized he might enjoy the challenge of it.

--

In which Slade, while chasing after the Joker gang's bounties and stolen payroll, finds Jason—battered, beaten, and abused at the gang's hands—alone in the mountains. Intrigued by the kid's feral tenacity, he offers Jason a chance at revenge.

E | Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings | Red Hood and the Outlaws (Comics), Deathstroke the Terminator (Comics), Batman (Comics), DCU (Comics) | Jason Todd/Slade Wilson

Five Supersoldiers Walk Into a Bar by bittercape He spots him through the binoculars, far away and disappearing fast. Logan is, more than anything, a hunter. He knows how to watch, and he watches the sniper moving away, after a single well-placed shot. He moves just like Barnes did. Everyone has a particular way of moving, if you know how to watch. And Logan, as mentioned, knows how to watch.

Logan knows it cannot be him, knows he died, falling from a train. No normal human could survive that. And yet …

He drops down from the watchtower. He’ll catch hell for this, sure. But he has to know.

T | No Archive Warnings Apply | Marvel Cinematic Universe, X-Men (Comicverse), DCU (Comics), Deathstroke the Terminator (Comics) | Logan (X-men) & James "Bucky" Barnes, Logan (X-Men) & Natasha Romanov, Logan (X-Men) & Slade Wilson, James "Bucky" Barnes & Slade Wilson, Natasha Romanov (Marvel) & Slade Wilson, James "Bucky" Barnes & Natasha Romanov, Steve Rogers & Slade Wilson

[somefanficrecomendations]

Robins are an Invasive Species

Author: Havendance Fandom: Batman (comics), Huntress

Summary: Team up with a teen vigilante once and you'll never get rid of him again. Helena didn't sign up for any of this. Writing the fic I want to read, one Huntress and Robin team up at a time.

Readers Notes: This series sat in my TBR pile for months before I decided to pick it up in the hopes of reducing the size of the stack. It has 3 parts, Robins Don’t Make Great Roommates, Brothers Have the Worst Timing and, Batman for Dummies. Batman for Dummies is the longest work in the series and spans the No Man’s Land arc. I hadn’t read anything with Helena in it before this fic but after reading this I’ve gained a new appreciation for her as a character, and I love her and Tim as Batman and Robin! I love Tim, and Tim as Robin isn’t something I get to read very often. He’s difficult to write correctly, balancing the bat-competency and pragmatic realism with the optimism of a  young Robin!Tim. Havendance has done a spectacular job with these characters. If you’ve never read Huntress, this is a great place to start.

Rating: Teen  Warning: None Apply.    Words: 42,848k          Characters: Helena Bertinelli, Tim Drake, Barbra Gordon, Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson Additional tags: Helena Bertinelli & Tim Drake, No Man’s Land, Batman: Knightfall, Helena Bertinelli is Batman, POV Helena Bertinelli, AU-Canon Divergence, Helena Bertinelli-Centric, Canon Typical Violence

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

Nightmares

read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/XkNrDWS by Havendance Bruce came to wake Tim, the day of his mother's funeral. A companion piece to Batman #455 - Identity Crisis pt. 1 Words: 100, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English Series: Part 14 of Drabbles Fandoms: Batman (Comics) Rating: General Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Categories: Gen Characters: Tim Drake (DCU), Bruce Wayne Relationships: Tim Drake & Bruce Wayne Additional Tags: Drabble, Canon Compliant read it on AO3 at https://ift.tt/XkNrDWS

[androxys]

I was tagged by @havendance for a "get to know you!"

Last Song: "Mama's Broken Heart" by Miranda Lambert, because sometimes you have to listen to a woman going a little crazy. As a treat.

Currently Watching: The only show I'm currently keeping up with is My Adventures with Superman, but I'm hoping to sit down and watch all of Good Omens Season 2 soon!

Currently Reading: Comics-wise? Uhh... for brevity's sake, let's just say Batman Chronicles and Batman: The Cult. Non comics-wise, I'm about to start Ocean Vuong's On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous.

Current Obsession: Yeah it's going to be DC comics forever. More specifically, I recently resurfaced from a deep dive on Barbara's recovery timeline once she gets out of the hospital post-paralysis. The timeline makes no sense and I keep digging deeper. In other realms, I just finished moving, so right now I'm spending a lot of time thinking about houseplants.

Sorry if I ping anyone with this who has already been tagged in a past version of this! The original prompt said 9 folks, so here goes: @azbats @clearbluewaters @upswings @wildflower-ditch @theultimatepomegranatestan @sporkberries @scintillyyy @silverwhittlingknife @mintchocochipsposts

[thrakaboom]

For the comic ask, 29?

29. The comic you’re currently reading (or want to reread soon)

Right now I'm reading Immortal Thor, which I'm catching up on! Actually, BOTH the letters I sent were in issue 12 which was ASTOUNDING and very exciting! (I included them below the cut)

Ask game by @havendance and located HERE

[havendance]

To build on my previous post, I think of the new52 comics I’ve read, Nightwing is the one that I think is best in terms of what the new52 was trying to do and how it was executed. That being said, it is still hindered by the new52-ness of it all. Working off of the premise of ‘we are rebooting these key characters to reintroduce them to a new universe with a compressed timeline’, Nightwing takes full advantage of the reboot to tell stories that are very much NIGHTWING stories but that couldn’t have been told in the post-crisis universe, revisiting classic Dick plot threads like Haley’s Circus and Tony Zucco in new ways.

I like how the initial plot line explores Dick’s childhood at Haley’s circus. The compressed timeline means that he’s spent more time there, and that means that the story has the opportunity to explore his friendships and relationships with the other performers in a more complicated way than warm nostalgia. Instead, he has a rival and a childhood love, and the guy that died after he left. It gets to take advantage of the reboot to spend more time in that part of the story.

(Of course then it proceeds to burn down Haley's Circus not once but TWICE, and also tie them into the court of owls. We're still trapped in the early new52 era edginess and endless crossover events.)

Volume 4: Second City also does this well imo. Tony Zucco is a pretty resolved plot thread in post crisis canon (I believe Dick wrestled with it in Batman Year 3? but also I didn't read year three so don't take my word for it), but once again the reboot and Dick being younger gives the opportunity to dig back in and re-imagine it. Post-crisis Dick doesn't need to wrestle with his parent's murderer, but it's juicy plot thread for new52 Dick, and I like how it has Zucco trying to start anew after what he did and Dick wrestling with that means in terms of the justice he's searching for.

I still think that Nightwing would be stronger if they hadn't erased so much of his history and relationship and the fact that he wasn't just Robin for a couple years, he BUILT the mantle, but the bones are solid and I think, regardless of whether or not the premise of the new52 was a good idea, Nightwing is doing it's best to execute it in a strong way.

[corujalesbica]

Hey @magic-crazy-as-this , @tatchling , @evandarya , @punkeropercyjackson , and specially @havendance , thank you SO MUCH for the advice on what to read first the links and the general kind response to my post. I'm THRILLED to start reading more DC comics and will be taking all you said into consideration! Have a lovely day, you nerds. <3

Hey dc batfam fandom PLEASE adopt me 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺

[mysteriousbeetle]

Ten People I'd Like to Get to Know Better

tagged by @dangerousdan-dan thank you ^_^ <3!

Last song: Wild Sage by The Mountain Goats

Favorite color: Orange 🍊🧡

Last book: I haven't finished any books this year because I've mainly been reading short stories and comics ^^; but the last book I finished in it's entirety was the no man's land novel and the book I'm currently reading is the dumb house by John Burnside.

Last movie: In the mood for love! I just watched it this saturday and I really liked it :]

Last TV show: I think it was revolutionary girl utena which I last watched in august I think and I still haven't finished it

Sweet/savory/spicy: Sweet!! I love sweets a lot.

Relationship status: I don't do that kind of stuff I guess.

Last thing I searched: My university's website.

Current obsession: I think it's still just comics for now.

Looking forward to: Winter break!!!! and more of batgirl (2024) too

Dan's bonus topics :)

Favorite drink: I love a shirley temple!!

Song playing on a loop in your head 24/7: Virgin Suicide by Kinoko Teikoku

Current favorite character: A character that I started really liking recently is Tim Hunter! otherwise I still have the same old favs <3

Fun activity you would like to get into: Hmm I guess watching more movies. I don't really watch movies usually but I remembered how cool they can be and there are a few I'm interested in watching. Also, I'd like to get back into modular origami when I have the time.

Last video game: I guess it was dark souls... I last played it in the summer.

Last comic/graphic novel: Last night I finished when I arrived at the castle by Emily Carroll and I'm currently in the middle of reading nightwing (1996) and hellblazer (1988).

no pressure tags: @franollie @vechter @chepib3 @havendance @lemonlimestar @mrsbertinelli and anyone else who's interested!!

[zahri-melitor]

Diverted to read Death and the Maidens because I hadn't yet, but it's just FRACTIONALLY too long for my purposes, so I am going to take a break in the middle of reading Al Ghul family drama to read Wonder Woman #750 (on @havendance's suggestion) as my 5,000th DC comic that I will log on LOCG and then I'll post some stats.

[havendance]

(Batman and Robin (2011) #14)

Robin (Damian): —and these people are under my protection! You want them, you’ll have to get through me.

Batman (Bruce): Through us.

Robin: Batman!

Batman: Nothing to be smiling about, boy. Get to work.

There’s something about this page… Damian’s face glad to see Batman when facing down a crowd… Batman’s “Get to work” and calling Damian ‘boy’… The way that the letterer emphasized each word in that phrase through the bubbles to give it that sense of space

[fahbev]

(I have had this in my drafts since November 9th. Sorry to all who forgot they reblogged this.)

Alright! The polls are in!

I must admit, this poll surprised me in more ways that one.

When I made this poll, I thought there would be one, obvious, and largely unanimous answer:

No. Because if you count Duke as a Robin, you also have to count half the city.

But it turned out to be a much more complex and intriguing question than I’d initially imagined. I’m going to discuss both sides of the debate under the cut. This may get long.

If you’ve been tagged, that means you left notes on this post that I wanted to mention, or you asked to be tagged. You can just scroll to your name if you’d like. There IS a TL:DR at the end.

Saying this here and I’ll expand on it later: THIS IS NOT AN ANTI-DUKE POST!

This is, in fact, a pro-Duke nerd post.

Now. Because of this poll, I went and finally finished reading We Are Robin and Robin War. These are so far the only Duke-centric comics I’ve read in full, so my analysis may be incomplete or inaccurate. Please don’t hesitate to add to the discussion!

Oh BOY I have so much to say. How do I even organize this?

First thing’s first: After much deliberation and going back through the comic, I stand by my original statement. The more I consider it, the more clear the answer is.

I was especially surprised to see so many Duke fans in the notes saying that he counts, considering, well...

Yes the whole comic is heavy on the “I am Robin” “We Are Robin” thing, but even the kids in the WAR movement seem to recognize that they aren’t... exactly. They aren’t bat approved, they have no training, and they’re doing this on their own. Later in the story arc, it’s repeatedly proven that the bat-approved robins are entirely in a separate category. Even Duke himself knows this.

There was this interplay of “You’re not Robin,” and “No but we can be,” but the CLIMAX of the story has Duke admitting that he’s not Robin. He’s still a vigilante in his own right, but he, and the other WAR kids, are not the same as the official Robins.

That fight ended like this:

1.

(The numbers are for organization and mean nothing.)

^ That isn’t just a skill gap. The WAR kids and the official Robins are completely different genres of vigilante. Putting them in the same group does Duke a disservice, because it draws an unfair comparison between people in very different situations, where Duke will always come out on the bottom. It’s important to acknowledge that they’re in different categories, and also the insane bravery of the WAR kids to step up and do this on their own with no training and very little support. (Steph did the same as Spoiler, but not as Robin, and this ain’t about her.)

Duke does become an official vigilante to be grouped in with the others later on, but at that point he’s already no longer Robin by any metric.

Second things second: A lot of people in the notes made some excellent points! I am going to address most of these takes.

Now, the most common point I saw was the same point I’d initially thought of: If we count Duke, we have to count hundreds of other people. If Duke meets the criteria, so do they.

A lot of people also mentioned that Maps would have to count in that case. I don’t have context for that. If anyone would like to point me in the direction of a comic about Robin!Maps, I would love to read it! I assume she was part of the WAR movement?

Another common thing was people saying that Robin has to be Batman’s partner. I would agree with that— but this discussion opened my eyes about how many different ways you can define what “Robin” is and what the title means.

Now, to address individual responses:

@havendance, this reiterates a lot of what I just said. You explained it very well, so I don’t feel the need to talk about most of this, but I do wanna mention:

A) “A” Robin vs. one of “THE” Robins.

I am really not sure what the distinction is there. Are you saying that he and the We Are Robin kids count in name only? I’m sensing something of substance there, but the phrasing is tripping me up.

B) “They were their own breed of everything”. That is an excellent way to put it. These were essentially hundreds of civilian children with no training or supervision at all, stepping up to protect their city. That is VERY different from one, highly trained protégé following Batman close behind.

2.

The implications, complications and repercussions of that^ was a MAJOR theme in W.A.R. To ignore that difference is to ignore half the plot:

3.

C) “...seen was that Duke was the leader and singled out more, but it didn’t feel like that to me.” You’re right on that front too. I see a lot of people saying he led the movement but... he didn’t?

The Nest was the closest they had to a leader, running it from behind the scenes:

—and they barely even listened to him. Sure, Duke did show some leadership skills/tendencies, but he definitely didn’t come across as the leader to me at all. They were all making decisions and it was pretty chaotic. Duke was the main character of WAR, but he was not the leader.

3. Continued

I also see people saying that Duke started the movement. He didn’t. The WAR kids saved his ass while he was investigating his parents’ disappearance—

— after which, their sort-of leader “The Nest” sent instructions to leave Duke at the scene, where he was personally sought out/kidnapped, and offered a spot within the organization:

Duke having started and/or led the movement is not canon. It’s not inherently a bad piece of fanon, and I don’t expect people to have read every comic ever, but for the purposes of this post, I am disregarding anything that isn’t canon.

@graylinesspam, woah, this is something I hadn’t even thought of. You’re right though.

Robin is a mantel. It’s a legacy. The cape is heavy and the boots are big.

Duke doesn’t inherit the legacy. Maybe he takes a fraction of it, but it makes a big difference that that he wasn’t the only Robin at the time.

(I discuss the mention of Stephanie closer to the end of the post, under the giant “4.” What you said seems slightly different from that topic, but I am largely unauthorized to speak on it since i didn’t read that run. Feel free to elaborate.)

@commic-jester this is an interesting take as well. It seems to me like this is referencing a comic I haven’t read. I don’t feel authorized to speak on this matter, but I do believe this is a point worth being heard. Feel free to elaborate if you wish!

@matchahater This is actually a very good and interesting point. When I made this poll, I hadn’t even considered that he might not count as part of the family or one of the batkids. Of course he counts, right? Foster kids obviously count. But I have heard about Duke’s own opinions on his standing. Unfortunately, I’m not really authorized to speak on this either, because I haven’t read any comics after he joins the batfam. I mean— currently I’m reading Batman and The Signal, but I’ve read so little of it at this point that it barely counts.

I’ll leave the discussion on this point up to those who know more than I!

@strawberrytalia , I agree with you entirely. I don’t think I can say most of this any better than you did, so I’ll keep this brief.

Someone else somewhere in this behemoth of a post, mentioned how Alfred gave Duke the title, and he did, but you’re also right that Duke took it up on his own. What Alfred did was give him an invitation to a group, rather than an honorary position being bestowed.

I said something similar to your point of “calling him Robin diminishes what he did” closer to the top of this post by the giant “1.”

But... what about the opposition, eh?

I wanted to make it clear that this was not a “do we like him/care about him?” kind of post, but based on the notes I got I don’t think that came across. A lot of people seemed defensive, and I got one or two “If you don’t count him I judge you” kind of tags. I want to make it doubly clear that I do like and care about Duke. I would not have spent so long making this post if I didn’t.

I didn’t screenshot quite as many on the ‘yes’ side because most of the ‘yes’ people in the notes gave an answer with nothing of substance— but there actually were several very good arguments that I won’t bury.

For one:

@waspredteeth, To be honest, while some of the opposition propaganda had me nodding like “yeah, fair,” this was the only one that actually made my opinion waver.

While I still hold my stance, yours is both solid, and emotionally satisfying. While not Robin in technicality, he is Robin in spirit? I can agree with that. The only reason I have not been converted to your side, is that I still think the distinction between “We Are Robin member” and “actual Robin” is very important to his character and his story. See the paragraph earlier in the post under the giant “2.”

@milfmarthawayne Ooh this is a cool take! Again, this draws attention to how we all define ‘Robin’ differently. If your definition says that: If Alf gives them the uniform, they count— I can get behind that.

It is implied that The Nest (implied to be Alfred), organized the movement and recruited every member. If you would include every WAR kid in your Robin count, then that is a fine way to draw the line. If you would only count Duke... well, I can’t stop you, but unless you can convince me that the other WAR kids were not recruited by Alfred, I’d have to disagree on logic alone.

@garythesnailsupremacist, again, this is simply a different definition of Robin. I do think it’s interesting that you’d count the robins as “everyone who ever used the title”, since that makes it impossible to list them, but that actually is a totally valid take. Similar to the one above too.

I mean, if they used the title of Robin, they’re a Robin. Seems like a simple definition! I can’t really get behind it personally, but I can absolutely see it.

However, as for: “#he didn’t start the we are robin movement for nothing”, I refute that statement elsewhere in the post. Scroll up to the giant “3.” for more info.

@crowtits, @golden-alliance Now, here, we finally get around to Steph. (Crowtits’s main point is similar to the one above so I won’t repeat myself.)

4.

So, full disclosure: both of these responses confused me. Duke is a gray area I just spent the whole post defining, but why wouldn’t Steph count? I have not read her Robin run, but as far as I can tell, the only things separating her from Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian in terms of Robinhood (ha) are: the short duration of her robinhood, and... her gender.

Neither of which should disqualify her, right? She still WAS Robin by any definition I can think of. I asked @quackery-binx, and they also couldn’t think of a legit reason for her to count any less than Jason or Tim.

If your reasoning is because she’s a girl, then I do not care about your opinion. If you have any actual reason why Duke would count more than she does, I would be interested to hear it! Otherwise I will assume that your knowledge on her (or on Duke) is thin, and you were mistaken about something. For Golden Alliance especially that seems to be the case, as you said you barely go here. (Again, no shame in not having read Every Comic Ever.)

I want to be clear that I am giving you both, and anyone who agrees with you, a chance to elaborate and explain why you used Steph as a yardstick/minimum threshold. I’m trying to expand my knowledge as well. This is NOT to ridicule you, and I don’t want anyone being mean in my notes or anyone’s inbox. This is an open discussion with no judgment on my end.

There were more notes than this, but I didn’t use any that were repetitive or had no substance for me to talk about.

TL;DR:

Duke Thomas does not count as Robin. The We Are Robin members were in a very different category from the official Robins, and they know it. Comparing them isn’t fair, and putting them in the same category diminishes the W.A.R. kids, even if not intended to. Duke did not start or lead the movement, and was no different from the other members. The gaping difference between the official Robins and the W.A.R. kids is an important aspect of the story. The climax is Duke accepting that he isn’t Robin.

If you want to count him anyway for emotional reasons, I can sympathize and there is nothing wrong with that, but while he may count in your heart, he doesn’t count on paper. He would not count himself as one.

Bottom line— I can’t control whether or not you choose to count him. This also is... not that big of a deal lolol. This is simply my propagananalysis, about which i feel strongly. It is alright if you want to count him.

... you’re just yk, wrong. But whatever.

@spaceprince-jupiter You seemed interested in this post but the last time we talked about this (or at all) was 53 days ago I am so sorry xD

i think you might’ve inspired the og poll iirc.

actually wait, nvm

@translesbianlanwangji this is objectively the best response. Everyone else go home. /hj

okay so i’m trying to find out what people think:

he absolutely counts as part of the family and one of the kids, but does he really qualify as one of the robins?

There will be NO Duke slander in the notes, hear me?

[havendance]

(Batman #14)

Batman: Nightwing, earlier today the Joker… he took Bruce Wayne’s butler.

Now THIS is such a Bruce panel. He’s distancing himself from his emotional response to Alfred being gone through obsessive opsec. He is totally coping with all of this.